doc
Swabbie
Posts: 96
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Post by doc on Nov 18, 2005 18:13:13 GMT -5
Okay, so if they were to do a Popeye film today, which version/actor would you prefer to see as Bluto: the chunky version as played by W. Earl Brown, or the muscular version played by Adam Baldwin?
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Post by mhberest on Nov 18, 2005 21:24:50 GMT -5
Actually, I'd prefer Vincent D'Onofrio.
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Post by bluto on Nov 21, 2005 6:35:33 GMT -5
I would prefer the muscular version played by someone like Adam Baldwin. (OT - "Serenity" was a great movie and I'm a big fan of "Firefly.") D'Onofrio isn't bad choice either. (OT - Vincent is what makes "Law And Order: Criminal Intent" what it is. The episodes this season on which he doesn't appear are dull.)
The muscular Bluto poses more of a physical and romantic threat to Popeye.
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Post by kaegrey on Dec 8, 2005 23:20:06 GMT -5
Can anyone tell me if Popeye had a brother? I mean he has nephews!!!
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doc
Swabbie
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Post by doc on Dec 9, 2005 15:40:28 GMT -5
Popeye had to have at least two siblings. One produced his nephew Doofus, the other produced his four mini-me clone nephews. It is possible (though unlikely) that Pupeye, Pipeye, Peepeye, and Papeye were all cousins rather than brothers, in which case Popeye might have had up to five siblings (or more). I'm sure that Poopdeck has a few kids out there that nobody knows about.
GW
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Post by Sparky on Dec 10, 2005 1:25:47 GMT -5
Thank you for answering that doc. Half the reason for this board is so fans can get together and chat; and the other half is so that curious guests can wander on and ask questions. (Instead of them emailing me and me going, Um...buh...er...ask the guys on my forum. ;D )
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doc
Swabbie
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Post by doc on Dec 20, 2005 16:43:09 GMT -5
Okay, so who else would you cast in a movie if Popeye was made today? I would go with W. Earl Brown (see above) as the chunky version of Bluto. I'd also stick George Carlin in it as Pappy. There's a bloke who would make a great Wimpy who's name is on the tip of my tongue. As for Popeye and Olive, they would be the hardest. I still can't get over Robin Williams and Shelly Duvall. What about Laura Prepton from That 70's Show as Olive? She is very tall and thin with great comic timing, but perhaps a tad too good looking for Olive.
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Post by mhberest on Dec 21, 2005 10:55:41 GMT -5
Billy West with make-up. He does the voice perfectly. Don't hold the CGI special against him.
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Post by bluto on Dec 22, 2005 19:52:11 GMT -5
I don't have a problem with pretty Olive Oyls. In fact, due to my love for the FS cartoons, I think of Ms. Oyl as pretty. So, as Olive Oyl, I'd nominate Amy Acker or Terri Hatcher.
For Popeye, someone short, but feisty and scrappy, is needed. Someone who seems like an unlikely hero, but could be convincing after he downs the spinach. I nominate Seth Green (when he's a few years older).
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Post by mhberest on Dec 22, 2005 20:28:56 GMT -5
Now you bring up an interesting point. Would we necessary want a classical Popeye? Would we want a revisionist Popeye? Not someone 6'2", of course, but perhaps a character with a little more panache? Someone Olive Oyl would be more likely to be attracted to?
I've always found it interesting that the cartoon heroes of the 1960's, who used some variation on spinach for their powers, were not funny looking, funny shaped little men with weird voices. Eighth Man, Sinbad Jr., and Roger Ramjet did not look or sound like Popeye. Underdog? 50/50.
Do we want a Popeye more along a superhero line? I do feel that a lot of the style of the FS Popeyes came from the Fleischer Supermans (Supermen? Supers man?). Popeye did things one could imagine a superhero doing. Or is that no longer Popeye?
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Post by bluto on Dec 23, 2005 17:15:12 GMT -5
Now you bring up an interesting point. Would we necessary want a classical Popeye? Would we want a revisionist Popeye? Not someone 6'2", of course, but perhaps a character with a little more panache? Someone Olive Oyl would be more likely to be attracted to? I've always found it interesting that the cartoon heroes of the 1960's, who used some variation on spinach for their powers, were not funny looking, funny shaped little men with weird voices. Eighth Man, Sinbad Jr., and Roger Ramjet did not look or sound like Popeye. Underdog? 50/50. Do we want a Popeye more along a superhero line? I do feel that a lot of the style of the FS Popeyes came from the Fleischer Supermans (Supermen? Supers man?). Popeye did things one could imagine a superhero doing. Or is that no longer Popeye? To me, Popeye must appear to be an unlikely hero and must seem, at least initially, to be the underdog. Part of Popeye's appeal is the triumph of the "little guy." Someone with a more traditional heroic build or with matinee idol good looks just wouldn't be Popeye to me.
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doc
Swabbie
Posts: 96
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Post by doc on Dec 23, 2005 18:51:21 GMT -5
To me, one of the more appealing aspects of Segar's universe was that there just weren't ANY good looking people. Even the characters who were supposed to be normal in appearance, like Castor or Wimpy, had a kind of pokey look to them. Characters like the Sea Hag, Alice, and Popeye himself were downright grotesque. I always liked the idea of the heroes being very unassuming in appearance. This is why I've always leaned towards the chunky Bluto as opposed to the overtly attractive muscleman, and to the Olive who is supposed to be decidedly homely and desired only by ugly mugs like Popeye and Bluto. It just makes the whole situation more surreal and entertaining, while still making sense. If Bluto were genuinely attractive, Olive would be much more likely to hook up with him, even if he was a bit of a rotter to her. If Olive were genuinely attractive, nobody would believe that she would be interested in either Popeye or Bluto and would expect her to go out and find a bloke who was good looking, rich, and had a bit of flash about him. Yes, I was the kid who was always rooting for the weird-looking bad guys in Dick Tracy GW
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doc
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Post by doc on Dec 23, 2005 18:53:03 GMT -5
"Thingy?" You've GOT to be kidding me.
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Post by bluto on Dec 24, 2005 12:28:29 GMT -5
Doc, I understand and respect your position on, and your preference for, the chunky Bluto and the ugly Olive Oyl. Certainly Segar's strange-looking characters are part of the appeal of those classic comic strips.
I look at things a little differently, though, (and that's what makes the world go 'round). Decades before I ever saw any Popeye comic strips, I grew up watching the Fleischer, Famous Studios, and KFS cartoons on TV. So I grew up believing that Olive Oyl and Bluto could be attractive. Olive and Bluto don't have to be ugly in order to be the "real" Olive and Bluto to me. In order for Olive to be Olive, she has to have a hyper-exaggerated, stereotypical female personality (something all incarnations of the character have had from Segar on down to the present day).
Also, Segar himself would alter Olive's sex appeal as gags and storylines demanded. Some times she was the homely old maid who could only get a guy if the guy thought she was rich and was after her money, or if the guy was so girl hungry he'd take anything. But other tiimes, she had desirable guys fighting for her, and when she got all dolled up in one storyline, she had all the men drooling over her. Sagendorf was sort of schizophrenic when it came to Ms. Oyl's appeal, too. His strips and comic book stories had their share of "Olive is ugly" jokes, but he would also have all kinds of guys hitting on her, including a ghost at one point, and showed us that Olive can get a new boyfriend just by walking down the street.
Here's another thought: If almost all of the main, continuiing characters in Popeye's universe are ugly or funny-looking, doesn't The Sailorman lose some of his uniqueness and his underdog status? (This is not meant to be a criticism of the Segar strips, which I LOVE, nor of the Fleischer and Hanna-Barbara cartoons, but rather a defence of the point of view of the Famous Studios and KFS films.)
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Post by mhberest on Dec 24, 2005 19:10:08 GMT -5
A couple of other points. There are no other men in the FS Universe except Popeye and the various incarnations of Bluto (who might be regarded as every(muscle)man). Wimpy's the onlyother one I know of, and he seems to only have eyes for hamburgers.
As a child, I never had any difficulty seeing that the FS Bluto was ultimately undesirable. The deep and mean-sounding voice Jackson Beck gave him, the wolf reactions, even the beard, signaled he was not the hero (facial hair was seen as a sign of untrustworthiness in the 1940's. Some suggest it cost Thomas Dewey the election both times he ran for President.).
In other words, I don't think it's possible for Olive to ultimately like Bluto (except in a "Beaus will be Beaus" situation where he in no way forces himself on Olive), and attractive or not, there isn't anybody else to consider.
Now to like the Segar/Fleischer incarnations of the characters is no sin. The thing I get from the Segar strips is that they are more about small town life (a common theme in comic strips at that time--even in Peanuts we never seem to go anywhere but Charlie Brown's suburban neighborhood). Popeye has adventures in them, true, but what they are about is the weird people who seem to coalesce in a small town. The Fleischer and especially the FS cartoons elevated Popeye to super-hero status: he was Clark Kent adding spinach rather than removing clothes and eyeglasses.
It's not unexpected. A comic strip story will take months to resolve. How is suspense appropriate there? A cartoon is over in six minutes, usually, to the second. Who has time for stories whose length of developments are a cross between a Dickens novel and a soap opera? Slam, bam, things have got to happen, snap, snap, snap. Time is telescoped.
Popeye as underdog is implicit in Segar, but translating that into the format of a short subject made it explicit..
No one, it strikes me, has ever converted a comic strip to a film and preserved the strip's pacing. To do that, you'd need a miniseries or a Masterpiece Theatre presentation. Comic books, on the other hand, often resolve the story in one issue. Not surprisingly, they move with a dispatch akin to classic cartoons.
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